Monday's quote from Brian McLaren in his book- A Generous Orthodoxy:
"I don’t mind if you think I’m wrong. I’m sure I am wrong about many things, although I’m not sure exactly which things I’m wrong about. I’m even sure I’m wrong about what I think I’m right about in at least some cases. So wherever you think I’m wrong, you could be right."
Would we accept such direction and leadership from a general???
“Alright troops, now we’re going to have to take this objective; ah, er…but maybe it’s the other one. Well, I’m not sure exactly which thing I could be wrong about, so I guess we’ll take um, the first one after-all…that is, ah, if you don’t mind. Anyway, we’ll attack by–oh, I think maybe we should use a flanking maneuver; or not, because I’m even sure I’m wrong about what I think I’m right about…at least I’m sure that is what I think…ah, I think…unless of course you think I’m wrong, you could be right.”
This is what makes it hard for me to accept McLaren's teachings about anything...His books are a good read and seem to be engaging and definite page turners, however, I do not want to feel like I am reading a Dan Brown book trying to decipher fact from fiction. When it come to books about spiritual truths, direction, and living, I should not have to read it as a mystery!
Way of the Pastor,
Joe
Hey Joe,
ReplyDeleteThe slides are easy. You basically use their site to upload you pics and then they give you directions on pasting the code to Blogger. Hope that helps!
When I read Maxwell, it is evident that he knows what he is talking about. When I read C.S. Lewis, it is evident that he knows what he is talking about and that God spoke through him many times, when I read Charles Spurgeon, it never crosses my mind that he is speaking outside of his realm of knowledge. However when I read McLaren, one just has to wonder if he is so humble why is he talk so much about what he doesn't know? 1 Titus 2:1 "You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine." All of which takes 5 minutes listening to McLaren to realize that he has no "sound doctrine." I don't think any of us are trying to pick a fight...just speak our minds and be able to share opinions and disagree! That's why I love coming to this site! I just bought McLaren's newest book today! I love his books! Just not his theology! And about the war! until you have a family member over there...you should keep in mind that just by you spouting off from your mouth about your slighted opinions of our involvment in the Middle East, it is a priveledge to have an opinion...you see over there they get shot for that! That's why we are over there! and that's worth fighting for every time!
ReplyDeleteJohnny Freedom
Wow...only here at "Way of the Pastor" do you see such debate! Keep it coming!
ReplyDeleteWay of the Pastor,
Joe
I have just one thing to say. Yes, it is true that we have the ability to be wrong. I don't think anyone would dispute that. However, 1 Peter 3:15 tells us to always be ready to give an answer. We have to trust the Holy Spirit to guide our words and actions. We may not always be sure, but the Holy Spirit is never in doubt.
ReplyDeleteDJ Baldy
I believe that McLaren could readily give an 'apologia' for the hope that he has, but personal reasons for loving Christ often times have very little to do with theology - think of Ghandi or Ben Harper. I love my mom but I never come up with systematic ways to make it work, I just do!
ReplyDeleteAnd to Johnny Freedom, please note that this is not a personal attack, if your war comment was directed at me, please re-read what I wrote. I only stated that we were sure of WMDs, and we haven't found any. That is not an opinion about the war. I have remained silent in that. And I don't spout off from my mouth. I take great care with the words I speak and write - please read them the same way.
paz
steve
Steve,
ReplyDelete"I love my mom but I never come up with systematic ways to make it work, I just do!" Good thought though! However, I'm sitting here thinking that we often times do have systematic behavors and actions towards our moms and/or other loved ones, that we demonstrate to show our love for others and yes...at times we just do! I just got a bunch of kids on video a couple of sundays ago to tell the world what they loved about their mothers and you know what....they all had an answer, and good ones too! Convincing one's at that! Should we be any less verbal about our faith and love in Christ? Bro, it's pure scripture 1 Peter 3:15. Are you saying that we are not able or is it that you believe we are not commissioned to hear and do when it comes to scripture? Love ya man!
Way of the Pastor,
Joe
Well said my friend!
ReplyDeleteJoe
Some random comments:
ReplyDeleteA.
For the record: 1 Peter 3
8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good;
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened." 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
B.
I think you are comparing apples & oranges when you are comparing McLaren to Lewis, Maxwell, and Spurgeon. Different writing styles and purposes. McLaren's goal is for the reader to question...to find faith thru wonder. Lewis' goal is for the reader to conclude...to find faith thru understanding. As well, do not mistaken the art of questioning from the art of doubting. Nevertheless, both question & doubt play vital roles in spiritual formation.
“Those who believe they believe in God but without passion in the heart, without anguish of mind, without uncertainty, without doubt, and even at times without despair, believe only in the idea of God, and not in God himself.” --Madeleine L’Engle
“The shame is not that people have doubts, but that they are ashamed of them.” –Os Guinness
C.
Love can be systematic, but inherently it is not. Faith can be systematic, but inherently it is not. Don't let the tail wag the dog.
"I'm discovering that a spiritual journey is a lot like a poem. You don't merely recite a poem or analyze it intellectually. You dance it, sing it, cry it, feel it on your skin and in your bones. You move with it and feel its caress. It falls on you like a teardrop or wraps around you like a smile. It lives in the heart and the body as well as the spirit and the head." -St. Augustine of Hippo
-Out from the shadows & cupcakes ... Neil
well done Neil!
ReplyDeleteObservations:
ReplyDelete1) Under the best circumstances Systematic Theologies are written because of one's love of God and desire for others to understand God's Character, Power and motives, so that they can love God for who He truly is. (The only one I've been reading so far is by Wayne Grudem and each section is actaully written as a devotion complete with prayer and with pertinent hymns to sing. I highly recommend it.)
2) I haven't read those quotes in context, but I am familiar with Os Guinness and I've heard Os Guinness say he doesn't agree with what Brian McLaren is doing. I'm willing to suggest that those folks are talking about the need to struggle with what we know the Bible teaches. Guinness does not mean that we should take things that are clear and then question them in a way that makes them sound merky and debatable.
3) I haven't read any McLaren, but listened to an interview where he dismissed substitutionary atonement as an imagination of church tradition, mocked it, and then portrayed a god that would do that as immoral. Listen if substitutionary atonement is a hard doctrine for you to accept, then struggle with it, but let's not pretent the Bible is unclear in regard to this teaching. Billions (potentially) of animals were sacrificed for sins in the Old Testament and the New Testament clearly says these animals were a picture of Christ's work of atonement.