Hey just wanted to take a break from the daily routine for a while here at Way of the Pastor! I heard a comment about Ray the other day here on a previous post and his style of evangelism...or for you who don't like that word...sharing your faith....and for those of you who think the word faith is too loaded...sharing your lifesong! Now to my knowledge there is no yelling and no "BS" which this method is wrongly labeled as at times. I would say in any witnessing or sharing experience that those should not be practiced...except when your first name starts with Paul Wahser! Ha!
Moving on, I was talking to a pastor friend of mine a couple of months ago and we were discussing methods of sharing one's faith. I told him about the methods practiced in the Bible and about Way of the Master bringing those methods to surface in a day and age that seems to be without them. He told me that those methods don't work anymore and that it wouldn't be effective in today's culture and society. The method I am talking about involves in a loving way and with a loving heart haveing a discussion with someone about the Ten Commandments, Hell, Judgment, and God's love and grace for us! I just know from persoanl experience that this method is most effective for me and my personality. For those out there that are turned off by a method that is more out in the open about certain Biblical topics than your everyday "friendship evengelism" methods...please spend a few moments and watch some of these clips of Kirk and Ray sharing as Jesus shared! Question...who would reach these lost souls if Kirk and Ray would not have been so bold as to carry on a conversation leading them closer to knowing and accepting Jesus Christ? Enjoy!
http://wayofthemaster.com/watchwitnessing.shtml Kirk with the gang mebers is amazing!
Way of the Pastor,
Joe
Joe asked, "Question...who would reach these lost souls if Kirk and Ray would not have been so bold as to carry on a conversation leading them closer to knowing and accepting Jesus Christ?"
ReplyDeleteI think many would, and likely do it just as well (maybe even better). I am not convinced Living Waters is doing anything "more biblical" than anyone else. I'd like to see an example in scripture that looks exactly like their goodness test. (That one always strikes me as dishonest. It assumes a standard that may or may not be applicable to the individual. Also everytime I do it, knowing that Christ has blotted out my sins, it calls me a liar.)
I'll probably pass on the videos. I've seen enough of their stuff to last me a lifetime. Just not a fan. I bet Ray and Kirk do an ok job, but some of their followers in my city are real great examples of what not to do as witnesses for Christ. (For me that is not good fruit)
I'm not exactly a friendship guy either, I am more intentional just not very confrontational (at least not until I have earned the right to be more confrontational). I am more of a Celtic model where you bring folks into community, build into their lives, minister with them and lead them into deep committment to Jesus.
For me it comes down to the parable of the sower. The seed that quickly grow up hardly last (I experienced this quite often as a street preacher doing much the same kind of stuff as Ray), but the seeds that were nurtured in the good ground (established in and through relationship) grew up not only to a solid plant, but to also produce fruit. I think the difference is that of a shotgun approach (confrontational evangelism) and a carefully aimed sniper (you know your target and right where to hit them).
But despite my preferences, I do think there are times when shotguns are entirely appropriate. (I can't believe I used a gun analogy, believe me I tried to come up with another one).
Frank...a couple of questions:
ReplyDelete1. When you die is there a chance that you will have unconfessed sin in your life?
2. If while building one of your celtic style fences for your neighbors and that neighbor falls down to the ground of a heart attack and you had not "earned the right" to bring them the knowledge of sin and then to the grace of God, where would your neighbor spend eternity?
Read Romans chapter 2...heck goa head and give yourself a refreasher coarse on the whole book with this is mind: giving the Law to the proud and grace to the humble. Oh, and Frank since no one has actually told oyu the good news yet...your not a liar...anymore...if you are a Christ follower, you are no longer under the curse of the LAW! Sin cannot condemn you now! For more biblical examples of Living Waters "Good Test method" read "What Did Jesus Do." And your judgment towards this method is based on peoples bad interpretation or thier annoying personality that existed before they became versed in the Way of the Master...I apologize on their behalf. Some people just don't get it. So is it dishonest...you have a very weak case my friend. Do yourself a favor and watch people coming to know Jesus right on the street. Oh and for a 3rd question!
3. Frank, if someone was to ask you "why should I become a Christian" what would you tell them?
Way of the Pastor,
Joe
1. Will it matter. When I die I will face judgement on the merits of Christ's work on my behalf. Rejecting this work is about the only thing that can mess that up for me and I am not about to do that.
ReplyDelete2. Where will they go if I freak out on them and they reject me outright? I've been on the streets seeing folks accept Jesus, my question is where are they a week later? I am not saying this isn't good but unless it is coupled with an excellent discipleship programme it is a waste of time.
3. I love it when that question comes up. And it completely depends on where they are at in that moment. Some need to move through a process of surrender and repentence, but some just need that moment to affirm what has already transpired in their hearts and steered towards a catechesis or programme of discipleship.
What I am most concerned about is this formulaic approach to evangelism that has no reflection on what Jesus or the early church did. Jesus engaged the culture and with wildly particular responses to different circumstances. To try and boil that down to a formula is just plain silly, but that is what happened in modern American evangelicalism.
I am thankful for the teaching.
ReplyDelete1) I was a legalist who first understood grace through listening to Comfort sermons like "Hell's Best Kept Secret" and "True and False Converts" and from reading his book "Revival's Golden Key." (All of it recommended reading and listening by the way.)
2) I do think people can get a little formulaic with Ray's model. None the less, it's a good starting place for people who want to Evangelize. We quickly learn that the Holy Spirit is "convincing the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment," and so we learn to work with the Spirit rather than against Him. But I also think that some folks end up trusting in the "formula" rather than God. And frankly, the Holy Spirit may convince a person of sin in surprising ways at times, and so we should not be so committed to a formula that we might resist His leading.
3) On the other hand, as I've developed as an "Evangelist," I found myself neglecting those aspects of the sword of the Spirit that tend toward convicting of "sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8)," and have been rightly put in my place by friends and non-believers alike. So I find while Evangelism is more than using the law effectively to prepare the way of the gospel, I have also found that I have quieted the Spirit's leading concerning use of the law at times, instead trusting in my ability to reason a person into the kingdom (not a good plan). So I try not to be so proud as to neglect the simple, and so self reliant as to trust a formula.
4) Folks say they: "trust in the keeping power of God," when they don't reel the catch into a church, and I think this is a cop-out. The great commission is "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you;... (Mat 28:18-20)" A friend of mine is addressing this by compiling a list of healthy churches in our area to refer people to if they don't live near enough to attend his church (or my church or whatever). The Etheopian Eunich is an example of someone who was evangelized and then left to himself, but he is an exception rather than the rule.
Last observation: Kirk Carmeron can tell a person that they're headed for hell more gently than anyone I can remember. I've heard people evangelize more gently, but they didn't go where Kirk does.
(I didn't listen to these particular clips, but we had "Way of the Master Radio" in the Twin Cities for two years before it went national, so I'm extremely familiar with it all. It was called "Talk the Walk" at that time, and I listened to the full three hours almost every day for like a year. Also, I'm antsy to hear the next clip from Paul Washer.)
Ben's second point is one of the biggest keys to evangelism I've every learned. Trust the Spirit who is already at work in the lives of people around you. John Wimber wrote a book called power evangelism and this is really the sense of evangelism that he shares. As evangelists we train ourselves to hear/see God at work and partner with God to see do what needs to be done. Wimber would see that someone was ready not by reasoning, but by a sense of what the Father was doing and just cut to the chase "so do you want to meet Jesus?" For me that takes all the fear right out of it - it is about partnering with God's work not trying to make something happen in our own efforts (which is my problem when methodologies become formulaic).
ReplyDelete